In this topic we discuss some general ideas/issues of the project.
Another question/suggestion: do you think it is possible for us to have somewhere in this site a quick go-to-page with the next deadlines? Perhaps even graphically, or something like a schedule? The idea would be to (1) having a place where I now I can quickly find next deadlines (instead of looking for this info in the text of a discussion), and (2) being able to allocate time for the tasks at least a week in advance. Of course, it is just an idea -- if it is to much trouble or not feasible on this platform, just ignore my suggestion 😉
Hi Marcio, this is a very nice idea! I have already looked for some schedule visualizations but I didn't find anything satisfactory yet. I will keep looking but it is important also to follow the discussion forum because we have to be flexible with the deadlines.
Hey girls and boys - how are you doing? I think before we get too deep, it would be great to have a group chat, just to discuss all the questions that somewhat get unaddressed or implicit during our small tasks. What do you think? Hugs from France, D
hi Davor and everyone 🙂
I would like this idea very much as well! I think it can give us more ideas about each other, plus it is great to chat with you all.
And I think it would be lovely to do it soon - before all the deadlines of this month finishes, but I- myself am extremely swamped till the 22nd. so 😛 I am totally up for it, and I do think as early as possible would be better. so, I can say, if you guys wanted to do it, plan the time and I will try my best to join you. even if short.
hugs to you all from San Diego!
p.s.(Europe people, please also think that you live 9 hours ahead of me :D)
Dear Kosmas and everyone,
I would need to ask for an extension for the next 2 deadlines. apologies for this. December is the extreme month for me with the deadline of my orchestra piece approaching and some health issues.
I would be able to submit both by the 23rd. however, I will try my best to maybe manage to send one of them at least by the 18th. (but can not promise this one. however the 23rd. is fix). And after this date, things are gonna be much smoother and I would be able to deliver other deadlines on- time.
thanks in advance, and till then
p.s. I enjoyed very much reading everyone's submission from the first deadline!
Hi Anahita (and everybody else),
from Tuesday onwards, I am more of less flexible to make a skype meeting, we'll have to find a good time for all, something between afternoon in EUrope and morning in the US. Any day preferences next week?
@davorius and everybody
@davorius mentioned the possibility of everybody meeting to talk... I have been thinking about this and related aspects. Sharing my thoughts:
I am still unsure about how to proceed regarding several aspects of procedures and the specific nature of collaborations and roles. This relates to the role that Kosmas plays, to the anonymity in the voting process, and other issues. For example:
1. Regarding the role Kosmas plays, he can be either (a) involved as a macro-composer, or try to be (b) as absent as possible from the process (i.e., interfering as less as possible. Nonetheless, the decisions of how the process occurs evidently has musical consequences. Thus:
2. I am unsure if I should (a) question the procedures he suggests, or (b) simply obey, taking his leadership as setting the rules of the game. I am actually OK with both, but I have hesitated a lot not knowing which it is. In the specific case at hand:
3. I have a feeling that for us to meet and talk could be an overriding of the whole system Kosmas has proposed and is controlling. For example, what is the purpose of anonymity in the tasks if we will discuss it directly (more on this later)? Furthermore, there could be a point in NOT meeting to talk, either because (a) Kosmas regards the process he has devised as a meta-compositional process in itself, or (b) the analytical objectivity his process affords is important for his work AS RESEARCH. I am a little afraid that meeting to talk, then, could actually simply override all the system he has created.
4. Nonetheless, I also feel the need for a clarifying round. For example: is the percussion set completely decided (simply the one that got the best notes)? Regarding "Instrumental Techniques", for example, there is a tie between two proposals -- one defining the techniques, and another arguing that they should not be defined. Which one are we following?
If Kosmas thinks it is important that we follow strictly the process he proposes, then I think that either (a) he should make decisions summarizing the previous phases (in which case he would assume an active role as macro-composer) or (b) devise a closing-phase, with something like "everybody makes a summary of everything and in the end we will vote on only one summary and disregard all the rest". But this could cost us half a month...
5. Finally, regarding anonymity, I have also gone back and forth.
For example, should I make a point in changing font type, design format, repeated or similar phrasing, in order to preserve anonymity? Or is it a "soft anonymity", in which we exclude or names, but take as granted that eventually we will all know who proposes what -- and also freely discuss all topics here?
Sorry for the long message, but these things have been on my mind for the last days, even holding me back a little...
Looking forward to your replies!
Hi everyone, from my side an e-meeting with all or some of you will be very welcomed. It will let you know better each other and enhance the trust between you, which should be slowly increase as we go further in the project. We can do that in the end of the incubation phase, where we can discuss some implicit aspects of the project if you want or you can express your desires regarding the collaborative process. But I have to warn you that no significant changes can be made in the overall framework. As Marcio mentioned, the decisions about the meta-structure has to be made from a perspective that is able to address other responsibilities than of the creative composing.
As I have already mentioned, the anonymous contributions will not distract you with information about authority. It will help in the formation of a group identity. At some point you will be familiar with each other compositional style (we will solve the notational style problem in the next phase) but this will not play a role if we manage to achieve the group identity. I am afraid that we are not close to that yet because there is lack of synchronization.
As composers you create compositions which are frameworks that guide the creativity of the instrumentalists. In your compositions you usually define a metric structure that help the instrumentalists to coordinate their outputs. The framework of this project functions in the same way, it is a structure that operates in long timescales and guides the creativity of the composers. In order to function properly it requires also a metric structure which is simply the deadlines.
Imagine that you have composed chords as parallel quarter notes. Should the notes of the chords be played simultaneously or not? Imagine now that you want to rehearse your composition which defines simple rhythmic and metric structures. What happens if the instrumentalists cannot count the bars or the proper relations between half, quarter and eight notes? Is there any chance that your piece is going to function musically as you have expected?
In a different project I am organizing named CECIA, I am working with 5 electroacoustic professional composers for over 4 months now. There were of course extensions of some deadlines but not a single deadline was missed. After the first month we established a rhythm that kept until the end. The formed trust can been seen in the last revision phase where all the proposed changes by all the composers were adopted. This great performance was manifested also in the final composition which is in my opinion a decent piece of electroacoustic music!
I would like you to think that what we are doing is a long timescale performance with me as the conductor-moderator. Everything that happens will leave a trace in the final composition. A miss-play (miss of a deadline or don't understand the assignment and contribute useless material) will affect the quality of the end result and will be heard. A performer doesn't change the structures of the piece he/she is going to perform, he/she puts all of his/her creativity in order to interpret it as musical as his/her imagination and experience affords. I hope these descriptions will help you understand better your role in this project.
I am afraid that you cannot take the initiative to define deadlines as you wish. You can ask for extensions but I have to decide the synchronization moments of the group. All the deadlines are calculated precisely and an extension will lead to a shrinking of the subsequent periods. As I have already mentioned, it is a good idea to not leave your assignment for the last day. The tasks are always small and feasible within the few days of each period.
The deadline for the incubation period 2 is extended for Wednesday 18.12.2019 at 23:59 in your local time zone. I expect that the composers who haven't upload their sketches yet to do that until then.
I would like to address some questions of Marcio that were left unanswered.
Firstly I will not interfere with any material, compositional or conceptual that you may bring in the network. From your part also, you should not interfere with the structure and operation of the network. You should focus and direct your creativity on achieving the goal of each task. You have to be very diligent in understanding the objective of each task and keep the corresponding deadlines. Otherwise you damage the network and the collaborative effort.
From now I will be also very careful and inspect if everything works properly. For example this instrumental technique proposal didn't comply with the task's objective. From now on, if I receive a contribution that doesn't comply with the assigned task, I will ask you to resubmit a more proper contribution. For the instrumental technique concept please rely on this proposal which received the same highest score.
For the incubation phase, build your first 4 sketches following the concepts with the highest score while you will have the opportunity in your last sketches to introduce elements from the other concepts. When we will establish a rhythm, the musical ideas will flow and develop naturally and will probably require novel material that is not present in the conception or incubation phase. That will be totally fine, even desireful. The materials we collect in these first two phases are the basic building blocks with which we will build the composition. If we will need further "bricks", we will find them in the process in a natural way.
@Kosmas - I just wanted to make clear that occassionally, I might use the proposed technique but with a slightly different notation, just because I myself use different writing for the same technique, and might have my own set of pre-designed symbols. Is that fine?
@davorius it is totally fine to use a slightly different notation, later I will rewrite all the sketches using a uniform notation
I was just wondering, I'm having hard time scrolling through all the posts in order to find the results we had so far. Would it be possible to create a separate folder so that all of our final concepts, final musical suggestions are in one place and so that one can easily and quickly refresh one's memory while composing? As the time will go on and there will be more and more stuff comming, it will really become a nuisance to scroll through bunch of posts, clicking on all your HERES before finding the one you're looking for. What do you think about that?
I would greately appreciate that, I think other will agree.
Cheers and Happy Holidays everyone!
@davorius all the important material is organized in the Phases webpage in the menu. With every new assignment I can post also links to these pages if you want.